This is my attempt (playtested) to take factions as 4e themes in a readable and assembled pdf format.
I hope to see here critical comments about my numbers and new ideas, so that the stuff could be a very good work.
| Attachment | Size |
|---|---|
| Free League Theme.pdf | 1.27 MB |
| Mercykiller Theme.pdf | 1.41 MB |
| Trascendent OrderTheme.pdf | 1.11 MB |
| Revolutionary league Theme.pdf | 1.43 MB |
| Sensates theme.pdf | 1.19 MB |
Okay, copy and pasted a lot of these to a word document and flash drive. At work, so can't really comment right now. Numbers look solid from what I saw, but will double check tonight. Do you mind if I correct for spelling? Otherwise, I'm digging what I seeing.
I haven't taken everything in, but do like what I've glanced through.
What do you say I take care of the Paradigm Shift and Post-Faction War paragon paths? What about a paragon path for some sects, like the Ragers or the Primals? Maybe to much for something so small, but it could work right?
Do either of you wanna tackle some of the non-faction paths too? There are some non-faction Prestigue Classes in the PSCS that are really awesome.
I'll try my hand at a few of them.
Do you have a list or a referal, or do we just look through the prestige classes here?
What about Epic Destinies? Would Factol count as one?
I haven't taken everything in, but do like what I've glanced through.
What do you say I take care of the Paradigm Shift and Post-Faction War paragon paths? What about a paragon path for some sects, like the Ragers or the Primals? Maybe to much for something so small, but it could work right?
Yes, certainly. It would be very beautiful to be able to convert all the factions and all the sects from all the resources.
I would not forget the expansionists and the comunalistis.
If you like the format you could begin from the 2 initial feats ( initiate feat & channel belief feat, respectively the novice and the factotum feats) and then to continue with the legendary path.
I have already done something that I soon will send about sodkiller, sons of mercy, mind'seye, merchants, guardian, dispossessed.
About the epic paths I am working for master of the spirit for the ciphers.
Do you have a list or a referal, or do we just look through the prestige classes here?
I would start with the Classes in the PSCS as a good basis to work from: http://www.planewalker.com/editorial-section/30/35-pscs - Chapters 3 and 4
And catland93 is right about branching the non-faction classes and feats into a new thread. I think this is the right thread for that:
http://www.planewalker.com/forum/4e-planescape-general-feats-paths-and-rituals
Update with Initiate of the Guvner feat , Guvner channel belief feat and Axiomist path.
Add Dustmen, Fated, Anarchist, Sensates and Mind's eye Initiate feats and channel belief feats
Add Sensory Adept and Master of The mInd legendary paths
Add Xaositects, Mercykillers, Sodkillers, Sons of Mercy, Expansionists, Communals; the Justiciar of the red death legendary path and some other updates.
For those that are subscribed to D&D Insider, Dragon just released a PDF about the Mercykillers, covering both Sodkillers and Sons of Mercy. The PDF also includes a Paragon Path for Sons of Mercy.
Add Initiate Feats for:
Anarch’s Guild
The Converts
Dispossessed
Eschaton
The Guardians
Hidden Hand
The Order Of Planes-Militant
The Planarists
The Prolongers
Planewalker’s Guild
Primals
Completed all the basic feats for all the factions and the most important sects.
Now we should improve with other legendary paths.
Add:
Sign of one
Bleakers + Madness Table
Incantifiers
Revellers
Daughters of light
Godslayers
Matemathicians
Opposition
Tacharim
Will of the one
Wylders
Add: Ring givers, Illuminated and splinter factions: Ashers, Dusters and Voids for the doomguard, Godslayer and Seekers of the Unknown for Athar, Craftmes Guild and Wild Union for Godsmen.
update
Have someone any good idea for a 4e faction infiltrator (revolutionary league) legendary path? Especially for Encounter and Daily attacks.
update
*copies over into the working document for PSCS 4*
By any chance are you or some of the others who have been working on this keeping an updated word doc of all of your work? I would like to compare what I have to what you have if you are to make sure Ive got the most up to date version.
*copies over into the working document for PSCS 4*
By any chance are you or some of the others who have been working on this keeping an updated word doc of all of your work? I would like to compare what I have to what you have if you are to make sure Ive got the most up to date version.
Yes. of course. I have a word document updated of all my work.
The last version has some corredges.
How can I upload it?
I haven't bothered to save any of my work as a word document, mainly what you see on the forums is the latest version.
Updated and edited all the work in pdf with 50 paragon paths. PEACH
http://www.mediafire.com/?urzggjdkzzo
The one bit of input I have right now is that Dreamer Asleep is too powerful with Shape Reality as an 11th level feature, when you consider that the Shape Reality Path feature was based 30th level ability of the Planeshaper. It needs to be massively toned down, or at least made into the 20th level power of that path instead.
I haven't read through everything, but the Channel feats look good so far, as do the paragon paths, but some of the Initiate feats seem way to strong to me.
The Godsmen Initiate feat seems to be a particuarlly bad example. It grants you a +2 to two skills, and if your 1st level, lets you train then. Not game breaking, but certainly not horrible since you can translate it to an overall +7 bonus without any other modifiers. I'm not sure if Imbue Equipment actually pushes it into the better then everything else category, but it's very very good even if it doesn't. The extra time it takes does balance it a bit, but with both the price drop and the skill bonuses... it's really strong compared to everything else out there. The Craftsman Version of it works as a feat on it's own. Complete the Cycle just blows it out of the water. If I'm reading it right, it's not quite as good as Long Walk Back and Spontaneous Resurrection, but they're both 30th level Epic Path features (from Martial Power if anyone's wondering), so the point's a little moot. Way too powerful. Yeah, you have to contend with landing on a random plane, and your allies can't bring you back, but your still back from the dead at no cost. Little Faith isn't really a drawback, since it doesn't actually have and affect on any class that lacks a divine source, so it's really just flavoring, albeit very good flavoring. Most of them aren't this bad, but they're still head and shoulders above everything else.
Now all that said, I think your ideas are brilliant, and do a very good job of bringing ideas into 4e. It's just that some of them need to be brought back in line with the feats that are provided in source books, and some of them, like Complete the Cycle, need to be their own feats. Hope this helps, and keep up the great work!
x Kobold avenger
The Dreamer Asleep shapes reality as standard action instead of the minor action of the planeshaper. I think of it is a great downgrade to justify the paragon level. Also the change temperature feature deals 10 damage instead of 15.
x dagon
The idea of faction initiate feats is something like the player's handbook mechanic for multiclass initiate feats.
All the multiclass initiate are unbalanced. They are virtually 2 feats but you can take only one of these(except the bard).
The difference for faction feats are the little hindraces.
If someone prefer it, he can use them as templates or give them as " 2 separate feats" but I prefer the single feats acquisition.
Complete the Cycle, maybe I don' t write it very well.
For me, it is not a game benefit feature, it is only fluff.
The reincarnate, in game terms, is like play a new charachter, you have no memory of your past. It is also an great hindrace because you cannot be raise from the death.
It doesn't matter if it's 10 or 5 or 15, it's the fact that it lasts for the entire encounter and can be used at will, which is beyond anything else that's 11th level.
It doesn't matter if it's 10 or 5 or 15, it's the fact that it lasts for the entire encounter and can be used at will, which is beyond anything else that's 11th level.
I thought the great strenght of this power was to use it as minor action.
Re-thinking I agree with you. The change temperature feature at will is overpower.
Do you have some ideas to balance this feature?
Thought I'd throw this out there.
Most, if not all powers that last an entire encounter are daily powers. Most, if not all powers beyond level 1 that last "until the end of the next turn" are encounter powers. If you still want it to last "until the end of the encounter," then the best option would be to make it a Daily.
Yes, certainly but as daily power it should be revised with all the paragon path.
We could remove the dream conduct attack 20 and add another 11th level feature
I guess that's fair. Perhaps since aim is to balance them against the multiclass initiates, a character with an initiate feat should be unable to take multiclass feats either unless they are a bard or have a similar ability? It could be that having that much devotion to one belief prevents you from effectively picking up other skills. Having lesser faction feats that don't require the initiate feat could also help this, since it makes the initiate to be more of a true believer then just any factioneer.
That would make more sense to me too. The line that got me was:
Which implies, at least for me, that the only thing changing is race. Level, memory, skills... nothing in the ritual says that any of these are lost.
Reguards the shape reality feature:
And if it could be activated only spending an action point and sustained spending an healing surge?
I guess that's fair. Perhaps since aim is to balance them against the multiclass initiates, a character with an initiate feat should be unable to take multiclass feats either unless they are a bard or have a similar ability? It could be that having that much devotion to one belief prevents you from effectively picking up other skills. Having lesser faction feats that don't require the initiate feat could also help this, since it makes the initiate to be more of a true believer then just any factioneer.
That would make more sense to me too. The line that got me was:
Which implies, at least for me, that the only thing changing is race. Level, memory, skills... nothing in the ritual says that any of these are lost.
No, each charachter can take 1 multiclass initiate feat and 1 faction initiate feat. I don' think it is as a great balance problem. A bard can take infinite multiclass initiate feats!!!! The major benefits of these feats are little features to represent the basic membership, the fluff and an small hindrace. Sincerely I don' see it as a problem. Then if you see it a great problem you can separate them as 2 feats.
For the reincarnate ritual It is bad. I will re-write it.
The bard's the exception rather then the rule though, isn't it? Anyhow, I don't think it's the end of the world if you have more then initiate feat, but I am trying to make sure that what goes in the 4e PSCS is somewhat in line with what WotC produces. If other people have the same soncerns as me, we can address it, if not, then I guess I'm just being paranoid. Again, everything else looks great, so it's not a huge concern.
The bard's the exception rather then the rule though, isn't it?
1 faction+1multiclass. not unlimited!They are two differnt things. The bard exception remains.
Do you remember a player's handbook feat as ritualist?
Wotc balance is only for combat feats.
Faction inititate feats are fluff template. It don't break any rules. There is some combat feature. Surely one or another could be unbalanced.
1 faction+1multiclass. not unlimited!They are two differnt things. The bard exception remains.
I never said you could have an unlimited number, in fact I said quite the opposite in the next line, although I admit that I skipped a word, so that may have made it confusing. My thought process was that the restriction on multiclass feats might have been due to their power level, so you couldn't take multiple superior feats. If this were the case, I thought that having the same power level, then it may be appropriate to extend the restriction to one multiclass or one faction feat.
No, and I think it's an inspired idea. Putting some of the more powerful faction abilities in as rituals in exactly what you should have done, and I applaud you for an excellent design.
My point was that I thought some tweaking was need before some of these feats move on to the PSCS, and I was just trying to suggest some ideas that may do this. That said, if no one else has these concerns, I'll conseed that I was off-base. No offense was intended.
Yes, of course. It is only a first draft and incomplete. I think surely there's the needing of many revisions and playtests, and of others creations to complete the work.
Anyway, waiting for a more complete feedback of the stuff, I try to put down a list of things to do:
- missing paragon paths:
Faction inflitrator
Mole
Saboteur
Anarchomancer
Slaadibird (both xaotic then chaos touched racial paragon path?)
Death blade
Oathkeepers
Minimalist
and all the sects paths
- faction epic paths
- some faction magic items and equipment. Faction artifacts.
-some famous faction member.
Some other ideas?
Is anyone interested to do any missing thing?
Okay, this isn't quite what you asked for, but in light of the Dragonmark feats in the Eberron Player's guide, which are very similar to your Initiate feats, I'd like to withdraw my comments about the feats being over powered. It think a couple of them need tinkering, but most of them are about on par with the Dragonmarks.
I think what is desperately needed by most of the factions in paragon and epic teir feats.I'll see if I can't come up with any once I have a little time.
Hey, I was wondering if I could post my thoughts? I remade all the namer abilities for my upcomming 4th ed planescape campaign, and I was wondering what you guys thought.
Also, I can't seem to see your work, seems the website says I don't have a valid download key or something.
I think Catland moved her work over here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/8972149/Planescape-Factions-4e
Catland? Is that the latest link for your PDF?
No. The new latest link is here: http://www.mediafire.com/?jnjdnhj41ou
Another thing I'd add is more consideration to newer 4e classes like the Invoker, Avenger and Shaman. And the fact in 4e no class has alignment restrictions, such that Monks can be Chaotic Neutral, Barbarians can be Lawful Neutral and Paladins can Chaotic Evil or True Neutral or whatever. Thus you can clearly have Anarchist Paladins, Guvner Bards, Xaositect Monks and Hardhead Barbarians in 4e, they'd just generally be rare as far as members of those factions go.
I'd go with describing a certain number of divine domains for each faction, but that's happening in another thread.
No. The new latest link is here: http://www.mediafire.com/?jnjdnhj41ou
Uh, Catland? When did you make those? Because some of those namer abilities are remarkably similar to abilities I came up with independantly when 4th ed first came out. I posted them over at WoTC. I don't mean to imply anything, but, well, here is the original thread over at WoTC, with the date stamp of when I posted them.
http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1070072
The post with the factions is at the bottom of the page.
Thanks Catland! 
I wanted to make sure I had the right version
No. The new latest link is here: http://www.mediafire.com/?jnjdnhj41ou
Uh, Catland? When did you make those? Because some of those namer abilities are remarkably similar to abilities I came up with independantly when 4th ed first came out. I posted them over at WoTC. I don't mean to imply anything, but, well, here is the original thread over at WoTC, with the date stamp of when I posted them.
http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1070072
The post with the factions is at the bottom of the page.
ehehh. I had never seen your post. Everyway the basic faction benefits are similar being a conversion of old stuff. Now I see your stuff and then I can say you something.
Ok, I find it! the remarkably similar abilites you said are posted by otogi in this article. http://www.planewalker.com/081105/4e-planscape-the-factions
It was the starting point of the work. I don' t know it was your stuff.
Wow, that otogi guy copied WORD FOR WORD my post about the new faction abilities, he even kept the mistakes I made, like saying "sense motive" instead of "Insight." Now that I remember, I think someone asked for permission to repost my work, but it would have been nice to get some freakin' credit. Just a line saying "Inspired by Degausser, his thread on wizards is here (link)"
Well, first time that I am aware of that someone stole my work online. Ho-rah. Anyway, thanks for clearing that up Catland.
I agree with you about credits.
Okay, copy and pasted a lot of these to a word document and flash drive. At work, so can't really comment right now. Numbers look solid from what I saw, but will double check tonight. Do you mind if I correct for spelling? Otherwise, I'm digging what I seeing.
Is this where I'm supposed to write something clever?