Vampires in Sigil - a 24 hour menace?

14 posts / 0 new
Last post
The Chronicler
The Chronicler's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 1 month ago
Joined: 2014-01-02 14:42
Vampires in Sigil - a 24 hour menace?

I have only recently started running a Planescape campaign. The player characters are from a 19th century setting, loosely based on the Masque of the Red Death campaign, brimming with undead.

Up to now the characters have been struggling with baatezu, jotuns (norse giants), and a mortal from a planet on the Prime called Krypton, with nearly divine powers. Sooner or later though, probably sooner, they will face a more familiar adversery (with some peculiar twists): A vampire.

The big question though is: Seeing as there is no sun in Sigil - are vampires able to roam at all hours? Given, of course, that they get sufficient rest.

If the answer is yes, then that will make one of their usual enemies unusually fearsome.

KnightOfDecay
KnightOfDecay's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 1 day ago
Joined: 2013-02-14 15:23
Quote:

Quote:

The big question though is: Seeing as there is no sun in Sigil - are vampires able to roam at all hours? Given, of course, that they get sufficient rest.

Can't remember if there is official information on this topic but imho the answer is yes

But you should remember that vampires have different social standing and probably different motivations in Sigil than on the Prime. They can act quite openly without a need to hide their nature, be members of a faction (especially the Dustmen) and visit restaurants that cater especially for their tastes: blood.
Attacking a vampire because he is vampire should get the PCs into serious trouble.

The Chronicler
The Chronicler's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 1 month ago
Joined: 2014-01-02 14:42
Quote:They can act quite

Quote:
They can act quite openly without a need to hide their nature, be members of a faction (especially the Dustmen) and visit restaurants that cater especially for their tastes: blood.

That´s a very good point. I expect it will be quite a shock for them to see vampires moving around in the open. The particular vampire I have in mind will remain hidden for them, however, since he is running a clandestine burglary/robbery operation, concealed behind a legitimate "swords for hire" business, that collects information on potential targets while they seemingly protect tradesmen, high-ups etc. It happens to be the same mercenery/body guard operation that the earthlings are currently employed with. He is in fact their boss.

Is there any more info on pubs and other facilities that cater for the undead? What about incorporeal undead, such as intelligent ghosts? And in what way, if any, does the Harmonium keep tabs on vampires feeding on unwilling victims? Could there be a enterprise that purchases blood from pauperized citizens in order to sell it to vampires and the likes?

The Chronicler
The Chronicler's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 1 month ago
Joined: 2014-01-02 14:42
Vampire facilities in Sigil - examples?

Quote:
They can act quite openly without a need to hide their nature, be members of a faction (especially the Dustmen) and visit restaurants that cater especially for their tastes: blood.

That´s a very good point. I expect it will be quite a shock for them to see vampires moving around in the open. The particular vampire I have in mind will remain hidden for them, however, since he is running a clandestine burglary/robbery operation, concealed behind a legitimate "swords for hire" business, that collects information on potential targets while they seemingly protect tradesmen, high-ups etc. It happens to be the same mercenery/body guard operation that the earthlings are currently employed with. He is in fact their boss.

Is there any more info on pubs and other facilities that cater for the undead? What about incorporeal undead, such as intelligent ghosts? And in what way, if any, does the Harmonium keep tabs on vampires feeding on unwilling victims? Could there be a enterprise that purchases blood from pauperized citizens in order to sell it to vampires and the likes?

elderbrain
Offline
Last seen: 2 weeks 2 days ago
Joined: 2011-09-07 20:09
Sigil does have day and night

Sigil does have day and night, despite having no sun, so it does get daylight. I'll have to check to see if it counts as actual sunlight for purposes of damaging vampires, but I think it does. However, remember than only direct sunlight damages vampires, so even during the day a vampire could find a way to shield itself (i.e. darkness spell). Of course, most vampires would probably just wait until dark and sleep during the day, like on any Prime world. (Killing a sleeping vampire would likely count as murder!)

Unsung
Unsung's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 2 weeks ago
Joined: 2012-10-04 05:01
...

Sigil has day and night-- peak and anti-peak-- but my understanding of it was that you never get true daylight, because the city's always covered in a constant haze, one part fog, one part LA funk/factory smoke. If it's modeled on Victorian, Industrial Revolution-era London, then impenetrable smog fits, along with the perpetual rain. The impression some descriptions have left on me is that no one in Sigil can actually see *out* of Sigil, and they more or less take it on faith that they're at the top of the Spire, because you can't actually see the Spire from inside the city-- you can't see anything except the curve of the city disappearing up into the haze on either side of you. Also, based on the angle of Sigil versus the rest of the Outlands, it seems like you'd get some seriously wonky shade and daytime hours if Sigil's light was based on the Outlands' sun. Er... Wouldn't you?

Correct me if I'm wrong-- I might be. Still, I've always ruled that the light in Sigil is too greasy and overcast to count as real daylight, for the purposes of drow, kobolds, vampires and the like.

Superman in 19th century Ravenloft? Sold.

Depending on how openly you want evil to show itself in your campaign, if there are restaurants where mind flayers can eat brains, then I don't think places selling human flesh or blood to fiends and undead would be out of the question. As you say, the Dustmen probably pay volunteers to donate blood. The Bleak Cabal might collect blood for vampires who would otherwise starve (repentant ones, maybe). So might the Fated, for that matter, if there was money in it. And there's money in everything.

Jem
Jem's picture
Offline
Last seen: 13 hours 42 min ago
Joined: 2006-05-10 19:50
I don't think peak light is

I don't think peak light is sunlight, so vampires can move about freely in that way. (Same goes for werewolves, who are never subject to moonlight there.)

Is there any more info on pubs and other facilities that cater for the undead? What about incorporeal undead, such as intelligent ghosts? And in what way, if any, does the Harmonium keep tabs on vampires feeding on unwilling victims? Could there be a enterprise that purchases blood from pauperized citizens in order to sell it to vampires and the likes?

There could certainly be businesses that pay poor people to donate blood for consumption by such creatures. There are people in our world that make money selling plasma...

Vampires eeding on unwilling victims are subject to the same law enforcement operations against assault and murder as any other. You probably have specialists in anti-undead operations once you get up past the cannon fodder troops.

There are some places in Sigil that serve the undead. In the Cage mentions The White Casket, a bar frequented by Dustmen, ghouls, and sufficiently independent zombies. It's decorated with things like bone mosaics, "twitching homonculi sealed in glass," thigh-bone flutes, and the like. The description doesn't mention them selling blood.

A while back I also wrote up Jerehal's Clone Farm. This is a guy who makes his money casting clone for you, cheaper than you could do it yourself, and keeping the clone in a nutrient vat for up to a year. You can renew your 'life insurance' as long as you care to pay. Occasionally, a customer doesn't need or want to collect; he can then do with the body as he pleases, and quite probably sends it out to creatures that need man-flesh and want to get it legally (and don't mind a slight lingering taste of formaldehyde).

elderbrain
Offline
Last seen: 2 weeks 2 days ago
Joined: 2011-09-07 20:09
The relevant text on sunlight

The relevant text on sunlight in Sigil is in the Campaign Setting box set book "Sigil and beyond" under the heading "Day and night". Sigil does get bright sunlight during the six hours closest to Peak (3 before, 3 after), but often the smog and/or rain is going to render this moot. However, a vampire who can't be bothered to check before stepping into the street is asking for it! So I'd say it's a potential, but rare, problem for vampires in Sigil...

The Chronicler
The Chronicler's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 1 month ago
Joined: 2014-01-02 14:42
Thank you

Thank you very much for a lot of excellent replies, and some very good tips indeed.

Quote:
Occasionally, a customer doesn't need or want to collect; he can then do with the body as he pleases, and quite probably sends it out to creatures that need man-flesh and want to get it legally (and don't mind a slight lingering taste of formaldehyde).

That is an awesome solution to the demand for blood, and perhaps also the need for a "kill", without breaking the law. I still like the idea of poor people selling their blood though, but the one does not exclude the other.

Quote:
Superman in 19th century Ravenloft? Sold.

Yeah, that could probably work too, but they did not encounter the kryptonion on Earth. One of the Earthlings was in fact an einherje, who had, in the employment of a German paranormal government agency, explored a different avenue of achieving mastery of occult powers, namely through the worship of the old Germanic gods. When he died in battle during a mission he woke up in Valhalla, much to his surprise. The Allfather gave him the somewhat challenging task of reclaiming all of Northern Europe for heathendom, and sent him back to Earth (unfortunately he was almost shot to death by his fellow agents when he was transported back by Bifrost, great fun though). This was considered a one way trip, since outsiders normally can´t leave Gothic Earth, once they´re there.

Through a long series of event he ended up in the company of British members of an ancient Christian order (the other group I´m leading), and via Hell they came to Sigil. Both groups were, for various reasons, desperate to return to Earth and the battle they are waging against the evil forces on their homeplanet (plus their families etc.), but the einherje were loath to approach the Allfather, or the other aesir, for help. A valkyrje, who´s taken a fancy for our einherje, suggested that Loke might help him out without Odin ever having to know about it. And he was willing to aid him, but only after the einherje, and his Christian friends completed three challenges ("my" Loke is very curious about the reclusive, but very powerful deity known to the Earthlings only as God, since He seems to be patiently amassing an enormous host of angels and petitioners for some unknown purpose, much like Asmodeus, really).

One of these were to dethrone a mortal with superhuman powers who had taken control over a world on the Prime populated by a race of primitive humans. Raz-El did not resemble Superman at all, but was an elderly sociopathic scientist from Krypton who had reached the planet by interstellar travel, and had no knowledge of gates. He had established a Brave New World-like class system of workers, soldiers/police and leaders, in a civilization based on crystal technology, and allowed himself to be worshiped as a god, something Loke did not much approve of. It was vital however, that they publicly humiliated him before they killed him, if it came to that. If not he might end up becoming an actual god, post mortem. They did kill him, but they botched that last part, and have probably created a brand new deity.

Oh, dear, that was a long rant. Sorry.

There´s one more thing I´d like to know though. What is the legal status of slaves in Sigil? I´ve assumed that it is illegal to capture slaves in the city, but as far as I´ve understood it is legal to keep slaves acquired outside of Sigil. But what, if any, are the rights of slaves in the city? Could you sell the blood, or brain, of a slave to for example vampires or illithids? Or would that be considered murder, even though they are your property?

Jem
Jem's picture
Offline
Last seen: 13 hours 42 min ago
Joined: 2006-05-10 19:50
There´s one more thing I´d
There´s one more thing I´d like to know though. What is the legal status of slaves in Sigil? I´ve assumed that it is illegal to capture slaves in the city, but as far as I´ve understood it is legal to keep slaves acquired outside of Sigil. But what, if any, are the rights of slaves in the city? Could you sell the blood, or brain, of a slave to for example vampires or illithids? Or would that be considered murder, even though they are your property?

You've essentially laid out the certain canon on the matter; the rest is not much detailed. Most likely, slaves have no rights in Sigil, and can be dealt with as their master pleases. About the only legalities that might concern someone are if they have a second residence or business relations somewhere else; for instance, Heliopolis or Olympus, which oversee slaveholding cultures with moral and legal limits on the condition.

There is a thread on the old site with some information here.

The Chronicler
The Chronicler's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 1 month ago
Joined: 2014-01-02 14:42
Quote:Most likely, slaves

Quote:
Most likely, slaves have no rights in Sigil, and can be dealt with as their master pleases.

Then that opens up yet another possibility for peddling blood to vampires etc.

Quote:
About the only legalities that might concern someone are if they have a second residence or business relations somewhere else; for instance, Heliopolis or Olympus, which oversee slaveholding cultures with moral and legal limits on the condition.

Are you saying that the laws that regulate the institution of slavery in your culture of origin in a sense follows you into Sigil? Does that mean that if you are e.g. a Muslim Earthling who travel to Sigil with your slaves, you are still bound by the Qurans prohibition against using your slaves to provide prostitution services, whereas if you were from another culture, perhaps ancient Roman, you´d have no such restrictions on the use of your slaves?

If I understood you correctly, and this is how the Guvners would reason, what would happen if you abandoned your second residence and called Sigil your one and only home? Would you then be free from the laws of your culture of origin?

Jem
Jem's picture
Offline
Last seen: 13 hours 42 min ago
Joined: 2006-05-10 19:50
Are you saying that the laws
Are you saying that the laws that regulate the institution of slavery in your culture of origin in a sense follows you into Sigil? Does that mean that if you are e.g. a Muslim Earthling who travel to Sigil with your slaves, you are still bound by the Qurans prohibition against using your slaves to provide prostitution services, whereas if you were from another culture, perhaps ancient Roman, you´d have no such restrictions on the use of your slaves?

No, no, not at all. Sigil probably has no law on the matter. I was referring strictly to the reputational and diplomatic realities of having such relationships. If you do business in Olympus, where a slave might be allowed to own property and buy his freedom, but when your slave is about to do so you take him to Sigil and keep him there permanently, people in Olympus are going to rightly regard you as having, at least morally, broken a law. If Heliopolis demands that a slave at craft labor be given one day in seven to labor for himself, and you don't in Sigil, people in Heliopolis might hear and start to not want to work with you.

Bob the Efreet
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 2 months ago
Joined: 2004-05-11 01:45
To expand on Jem's answer,

To expand on Jem's answer, while the law of the land changes based on where you are, you always remain bound by your own beliefs. So in your example of the Muslim, walking into Sigil doesn't free him from Quranic prohibitions, since those are something he carries around inside himself.

cnposner
cnposner's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 9 months ago
Joined: 2016-02-06 18:08
Reply: Slavery on the Outer Planes

Quote:
There is a thread on the old site with some information here.

Are you thinking of this?

http://mimir.planewalker.com/forum/slavery-outer-planes